Cape Crisis #21 – The Dark Knight Rose

We kick off the show SPOILER-FREE with Manga chat and Star Trek TNG. Oh, but that second half… THE DARK KNIGHT SPOILERS ABOUND!

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Cape Crisis #21 Question – The Dark Knight Rises: Good or bad (and why)?

58 thoughts on “Cape Crisis #21 – The Dark Knight Rose

    1. Anywhere but that! Utah is the middle of nowhere. Even the British Prime Minister thinks so.
      “We are holding an Olympic Games in one of the busiest, most active, bustling cities anywhere in the world,” Cameron said. “Of course it’s easier if you hold an Olympic Games in the middle of nowhere.” (Referring to the Salt Lake City Games.)

  1. I agree with the film having many flaws (though more viewings made me appreciate the themes/plot more than I initially thought) but how come Avengers was praised up the ass where it had arguably more character flaws, inconsistent edits, plot devices that absolutely faltered and a recycled villain who was more interesting in his first film? Not to mention the visual faults so much that it was hailed as the most mistake filled film of 2012.
    http://www.ifc.com/fix/2012/06/the-avengers-movie-mistakes
    http://www.moviemistakes.com/film9072

    And no I’m not some Marvel vs DC fanboy, I’m a fan of both companies in the vein of having two children being born this year so it strikes me as odd that one film is put up on a pedestal where you praise the ever-loving sh*t out of it (and deservedly so) but point out every minute flaw The Dark Knight Rises had. It just made me sad that after having such a good time listening to the episodes involving the Avengers discussions, a film I equally anticipated being discussed was filled with such negativity.

    I agree with Henry on Earth One, it was terrible and further confirmed in my mind how Geoff Johns doesn’t know how to write real characters. They’re parodies come to life with the worst attributes highlighted.

    Love you guys.

  2. Although TDKR is a flawed film, and had the burden of following a movie that instantly went into my top 5 films ever, I definitely enjoyed the experience. I thought some of Bane’s dialogue was difficult to understand, but overall Tom Hardy did an awesome job bringing the badass to life. My absolute favorite part of the film was Anne Hathaway’s portrayal of Catwoman. Smart, sarcastic, and sexy all wrapped up in a super sleek outfit. The finest interpretation of the famous female comic book character ever put on celluloid. I just wish she had more screen time.

  3. if you liked BB better than TDK, you will find a lot to love in TDKR, I think that is why all the bitching is coming from. That being said I got physically angry listing to the last 20 mins of this podcast.

    1. It did seem pretty much like a bitchfest from the beginning from the second half mark when they dove into the discussion about the movie. I don’t know why Tyler was even on this cast. I enjoy him talking about games but I distinctly remember him saying he couldn’t give a crap about comic book or comic book related entertainment so I’m wondering why have him on here if he’s just gonna bitch about the film.
      They might as well titled this “Cape Crisis: Where we hate this movie because it isn’t doesn’t have eyerolling Joss Whedon dialogue”.

  4. Poor Henry, this is one of those instances where I wish Chris was the host of the show so he could mediate the discussion a bit. Instead it seemed like Hank the tank was overwhelmed by the nitpicks thrown his way about TDKR.

    1. I disagree,
      I feel if allowed chris would have attacked this film.
      Its why he sat out and Henry stepped up.

  5. In regards to Carolyn’s comment about not knowing “the child” wasn’t Bane, you see Tom Hardy’s face (admittedly after the reveal) inside the prison, without the mask. They imply that he didn’t Begin wearing the mask until after the beating he received while helping her escape. Thus you could not infer that “the child” was not Bane sheerly by the virtue of his (in actuality, hers) not wearing the mask upon escape.

  6. My advice to anyone who saw a few flaws? See it again. I was picking it apart like mad after I saw it on Friday, but I saw it again and now I only have a couple of minor problems with it (most notably the slightly confusing time-jumps and wishing a few scenes/characters were fleshed out a bit). The flaws become more easy to ignore when you know they’re there, and you can enjoy the film.

    I do prefer The Dark Knight, but it’s better than Batman Begins.

  7. I saw the film the first time and thoroughly enjoyed it, but I had a few mixed feelings about it too. I went to see it a second time and found I was actually a little more dissapointed than before. I went into the movie knowing it would be more similar to BB than TDK, so I was really just comparing it to BB, and somehow I felt like the movie let down in its final third act.
    That said, Michael Caine’s scenes had me tearing up, Hardy was a total badass and Jonathan Crane’s cameo was pretty fun!

  8. Not done listening yet, but I will say that I was glad to hear Carolyn on here. Even though when Brett said “speaking of ‘engage'” in reference to Next Gen, I did get very unnecessarily excited for them…

    1. yes! I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who jumped to that conclusion…but i was sad face when i realized that wasn’t what they were talking about.

  9. The biggest problem i had with the discussion was when you said that bruce wayne wouldn’t quit being batman for 8 years. This version of bruce isn’t the same as in the comics. In the dark knight they make it a major plot point that he’s looking for a way out of being batman. And even when he quits being batman he tries to help gotham via the clean energy project, so he doesn’t exactly quit on his mission immediately after the dark knight! I respect your opinions and agree with some of the problems you guys had, but that part pissed me off a little…

  10. What a lovely, lovely podcast. You guys were a bit negative on DKR.
    Also does the cape crisis recommends not show up for anyone else.

  11. I think TDKR was a near perfect film, I’m tempted to review it on the forums.
    it was a grand finale to what has been for me, the best set of comic book films ever.

  12. No offense to anyone involved with this show, because I respect everyone involved, but Jesus if I wanted to listen to people complain about a film I’ll go back to work at my local theater. I tuned in to hear you guys discuss the film, not listen 95 percent nitpicking. It wasn’t even fun to listen to.

    Brett even mentions he overall loves the film, then spends 20 minutes looking for everything that bothered him.

    Again, not meaning to offend any of the cast, but this was a sour discussion if you ask me.

    1. Totally agree. It was easily one of the best comic book films ever made but you guys just bitched about it. What about the acting? The awesome score? The fact that Nolan has made Cat Woman actually become an interesting character?

      I really like your movie chats but lets keep the bitching to the minimum, as let’s remember – this is a comic book movie we’re talking about here!

      1. I agree. I love the entertainment the guys put out, all the way from TalkRadar. But a few times, it seems that the hate in brought on in almost a raging way, yeah, no movie is to everyone’s liking, but if you spend half an hour saying how much a movie has wrong with it, an two minutes saying that you actually think it is a good film… you can see how we can see it as mixed messages. In a cynical modern time it is hard to allow ourselves to enjoy something, because as the guys themselves said once, now it is in fashion to be the person that truly sees what “lies beyond”, and by that, it usually means “everything sucks”, and other people are dumb for liking something at face value. How smart or knowledgeable some is, is equated with how much can he find wrong wit something. People respect and love the lasertime crew, so, when they are just saying that “that thing you all of guys liked is stoooopid!”, well… people are not going to like it. Should the guys adapt to what we want them to say?, I couldn’t answer, it all depends on what lasertime and cape crisis want to be, and that depends on them. But, in this case, yeah, I do believe what they say is wrong with the movie is nitpicking, it is not perfect, but leaps and bounds above what we have seen in super heroes movies.

  13. Yeah in all fairness I think I’ll skip this episode, no offense to the people involved. I’ve already gotten sick of articles online about all the little niggles and nitpicks in the Dark Knight Rises so I’ll pass on this.

  14. I just dont understand why we as people cant enjoy a film. its escapism, its a suspension of disbelief. thats what a movie does, it does things we cant do in the real world, no matter how real nolans movies are,there are things where you just have to let go. just except it and forget the little things. we criticize childrens films for christ’s sake. the movie was awesome. it broke the curse. its a good trilogy.

  15. Pretty disappointed in you guy’s discussion. Not that your points weren’t valid, but there was a complete lack of perspective. It seemed like only Henry ever really challenged anyone’s criticisms, and he even backed off a bit I could tell later. I don’t really want to argue every point, but I feel like the film deserved a better discussion than that. I’d love to talk to have a classy discussion with you guys up at PAX this year, but I might as well illustrate a few things that particularly bothered me.

    First off, Brett’s comparrison to the dark knight I felt was very flawed. He was talking about how silly the plot in rises was in comparrison, but if you say,”I’m gonna load everyone in the city onto two boats and they’re both gonna blow up!” in a goofy voice it sounds pretty dumb too.

    I’d also like to point out that it never addresses the purpose of bane’s mask until after the flashback with the child, witch makes the foreshadowing less obvious and after the fact. I had the exact same idea that bane has already been defeated before he dies and is as far as the watcher s concerned defeated. Also, leading up to this, it’s a little more in depth than two guys wailing on each other. Batman evades numerous attacks that probably would have ended the fight, as well as deals numerous strikes to banes face. I thought it was a little unfair to criticize this part.

    Lastly, I’d like to point out one thing in-particular that really irked me; you guys, mostly Bret, totally bitched about the one liners and then immediately start talking about the Avengers. I like Wheadon’s work, but you can’t really criticize unreal dialougue that only exists to set up the smartest poissible one liner, and then start talking about how much better the avengers is, still a great movie in my opinion though.

    Well, I didn’t want to have such a large arguement, but like I said you guys didn’t have a lot of counter points. I really enjoyed rises and keeping in mind it is the third film in a series (which is usually where they fuck up royally), it was a phenomenal film. Still love the show guys and can’t wait to see you all at PAX.

  16. I really really really wanted to like TDKR. So much in fact, I saw it twice! I just couldn’t get into it. You guys have great points.

    – Action scenes we werent great. I wish final fight with Bane was more thought out. Batman Coulda used his cape to blind Bane and then hide or some shit, then go for a sneak attack. Enough with the swinging of the fists!

    – The time between the final shot of batman and the nuke exploding was cheap. They might have just fast forwarded it, but i still wish they thought that one out as well.

    – We Finally get to see Catwomen, Bane, and Talia but its all over so sudden.

    – Would have like Ledger to have lived and watch that movie than watch this movie. I understand they tried, but could have done better.

    – Overall things needed to get thought out more.

    – I am please with how the movie ended though ๐Ÿ™‚

  17. Concerning Carolyn’s ‘Hyperion’ recommendation…

    If you’re going to get into Dan Simmons, read up to ‘The Terror’ (2007) and then STOP. Everything from ’09 and up…ugh.

    And I wouldn’t visit the author’s website either. Borderline Orson Scott Card madness…

  18. well batman wasn’t batman because he wasn’t needed anymore, not because of rachel
    and i agree with tyler, there was a lot of foreshadowing but i don’t consider that a bad thing, i don’t know why they complain so much

  19. Wow, people get a bit defensive about Batman. The movie was good, but it simply didn’t measure up to TDK. I agreed with every single one of the criticisms here, plus had a few more. For me, Avengers won the summer.

  20. The conversation about the explosion in Gotham feeling unremarkable and a lack of danger while the explosion in NYC in Avengers gives out a sense of danger is odd. In the Avengers, the explosion in NYC was seen so many times in the trailer and overall just felt like a cool action moment. Meanwhile, seeing Gotham explode all around was a bit shocking along with the bridge blowing up, as it showed that Bane pretty much won as he took over Gotham, broke Batman’s back, and has control of a bomb.

    Also, its probably unfair to compare Avengers to The Dark Knight Rises. One is an entertaining summer film and the other is more than a simple summer blockbuster.

    1. ..The problem is that, honestly? TKDR isn’t more than a simple summer blockbuster. There isn’t really enough left to think about it like in TDK or BB, there’s almost no challenging moral or psychological issues like the other two greatly presented. I DID enjoy TDKR… but it never rises (pun!!!) above the fact that this one IS just a summer action blockbuster.

  21. So, I was really afraid of listening to the last half of this because from all the comments I thought your discussion of TDKR faults would be much harsher. Consider to be honest that it did have many faults, plot holes etc, I wasn’t really upset by any of the criticisms other than Brett’s comment that Bane blowing up all those locations in Gotham and destroying all but one bridge wouldn’t have been scary to the people of Gotham because…some dude did that a couple of years ago so whatever?? Oh no, I argue that people would be even more terrified if that happened again and then you are greeted with such an overwhelming terrorist figure as Bane. I think it is ridiculous to argue otherwise just because you as an audience member did not find it as threatening or impressive Brett ( sorry if that sounds really angry or bitchy criticism I just feel strongly about that point you made, I still adore you!) as certain other big city movie explosions.

    But other than that and the fact that you were all overwhelming Henry to a certain extent with negative criticisms, I agreed with pretty much every negative point pointed out. I still loved the movie, I’ve seen it twice and am still excited to see it again and I can tell that you guys did too because the thing is if you didn’t care much about it or hated it, I know that it would not have really been discussed as much as it was as a film.

    Then again, I’m not a huge Batman fan either and I think the reason I enjoyed watching TDKR so much was because of Tom Hardy’s magnificent performance as Bane, that voice could have been so stupid but it was mesmerizing!, as well as Ann Hathaway as Selina Kyle, she played her as intelligent and capable, as well as fun and sexy (take note Judd Winick!) how about that! They were wonderful and I think they really made that film greater than it would have been had it been different actors with the same story and flaws. So, I didn’t necessarily watch the film for Batman but for the supporting cast so perhaps you could argue that’s why I’m not as upset but still I thought most of the criticisms brought up were fair criticisms just said from a heated fan perspective.

    Oh and although I loved Avengers, TDKR is definitely the movie of the summer for me, the performances were just too deliciously juicy, multi layered and memorable as compared to Avengers popcorn superhero frenzied fun. Plus I felt really let down that Loki, who was sooo good and anguished in Thor became such a generic, sad villain in Avengers. Loki with all his powers and godliness just does not compare with the ferocity and intensity of TH’s Bane. Just my opinion, they were two very different movie experiences, almost too different to compare fairly I would argue.

    Love you all, thanks for another fantastic comic podcast!

  22. Love how people defending this movie immediately go with the “They are too different to be compared fairly!” card when it comes to TDKR against avengers. The problem is that… Sadly, they really aren’t that different. TDK WAS a very different kind of beast, because a lot of it’s content, subtext and stakes were more of a psychological variety, it was a movie that made you think. TDKR? not really, the stakes are high, but they are very tangible ones that never really challenge the viewer, it’s not nearly as deep and cerebral as the first two films were, and thus, I honestly do think this movie does fall into just another action flick, like most people love to categorize the avengers as.

    The reason why I consider that the avengers was a superior movie, was because it completely embraced and knew what it wanted to be. The whole purpose behind the movie was to create a team of initially uncooperative members that once united became an incredible force, and it pulled it off spectacularly. TDKR had the obvious baggage and legacy of the previous two films to live up to, and while it tries to maintain the same dark, gritty tone, it’s honestly so much more over the top, flawed, and again, not nearly as deep.

    For the record, I honestly enjoyed TDKR, and I think it’s a decent story overall, but it has too many problems in it’s execution, and it’s not nearly as good as The Avengers, or the first two Nolan Batman films for that matter.

  23. I see lots of folks on here complaining about the negativity on this cast. I have to agree. There’s not much fair reviewing here (with the exception of HenereyG), but bitching. It wasn’t fun and it didn’t give me any ‘high five’ moments in regards to the things I loved about the movie. But this is a complaint I can lobby at several Laser Time episodes, too much negativity. And I’m kind of looking at Bret here. Bret, I love you, but maybe you could see how it feels to lighten up from time to time.

    1. “I see lots of folks on here complaining about the negativity on this cast. I have to agree. Thereโ€™s not much fair reviewing here (with the exception of HenereyG), but bitching.”

      And in turn, you could say that there is not much fair critiquing or actual, reasonable complains in here, but bitching ๐Ÿ˜›

      Seriously, the majority of people “complaining” over here are mainly butt-hurt that the people in the podcast didn’t happen to love the movie as much and pointed out why, because hey, whether you people want to admit it or not, the movie DOES have a lot of problems.

      Not everyone can be a mindless ass kisser just to make drones and fanboys happy, just sayin’

  24. Ugh…yea sorry guys, the last half literally just brought my whole spirit down. The last like five minutes is when you guys talked about some positive points but if I hadn’t watched the movie beforehand and just listened to your guys’s opinions, I would have thought it was a crap film overall. I did agree with a lot of the points made though, but I don’t think they honestly deserved that much attention. I think you could enjoy the film greatly even with those points but I kinda wonder if you guys just expected like a flawless movie or something. I dunno. If chris was in this discussion, hell it would have probably been a straight up attack of the film, I’m guessing. I kinda wish Wikiparez was here because I think he would be able to at least bring up the good points of the movie.

  25. Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinions, but man you guys were rough. This was the first time I’ve ever stopped listening to one of your guys shows. The overwhelming amount of negativity and nitpicking of the entire film was more than i could take. The way you guts ripped this movie apart was the most UN-enjoyable thing you guys have ever done. Was the movie perfect? Hell no, it does have its share of plot holes and inconsistencies. But it was a good enough movie, with interesting characters and great story backed up by some great music. The Rise chant is still ringing in my head. Christopher Nolan isn’t Jesus and this wasn’t the second coming so how about lowering your expectations a bit and just enjoy this amazing Batman trilogy that we were given. I doubt we’ll see anything like this again anytime soon.

    Love you guys, XOXO

  26. You guys seemed to hate on the prison portion quite a bit…Wasn’t that supposed to be Nolan’s version of the Lazarus pit?

  27. Because I hate the idea of slightly disliking A) a Batman movie B) a Christopher Nolan movie and C) a Christopher Nolan Batman movie, totally seeing Dark Knight Rises again. In IMAX! Hopefully that’ll make my opinion XTRA VALID

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