Cape Crisis 55 – Cinematic Kryptonite

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We’re back from E3, we’ve played comic book games, and we’ve seen Man of Steel, and we’ve got A LOT to say about it. Won’t you listen?

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Cape Crisis #55 Question: What did Man of Steel get right/wrong?

35 thoughts on “Cape Crisis 55 – Cinematic Kryptonite

  1. Thunderbolts? Really Hank? Really? I normally agree with you but not this time. Daniel Way is a Hack, and Steve Dillon’s art is laughable.

    1. Yea it sucks. I really loved the movie and I keep hearing podcasters I also love trashing it. I didn’t like the way they did Pa Kent and some other things but overall I though it was a great movie. It makes me hope for more DC films.

      A lot of what I hear from people who didn’t like it is the “Superman wouldn’t do that.” when Superman is a comic character that has changed so much over the years and been portrayed in many ways in different media. I watched the movie in its own universe the same way I did with the batman movies. If you can’t do that you will be very unhappy with the movie.

      I either hear people calling back the old movies or their favorite comics when they should enjoy the movie on its own. It is presenting you with its own version of the character.

      My only real complaint is that the movie did not take enough risks. What I wanted from this movie was to be the start of a line of DC films but I didn’t feel there were enough connections to the rest of the universe. No after credits scene with Martian manhunter and besides a few Lex trucks not much from Superman’s line either.

  2. SPOILERS

    Yeah… even though I had my problems with Man of Steel, I definitely think Henry’s main gripe with it are more of the vein of “Waaah! This isn’t the same Superman I’m used to! Waaaah!”. Which to me, feels also like the people that blew a gasket about the Mandarin in Iron Man 3. It’s judging a film not for the film itself, but for the expectations it failed to meet. Which is kinda annoying honestly, why should the movies be carbon copies of their source material? where’s the fun in that?

    1. Totally. I think if this was a movie with the same events but different character names I think people would love it more and forgive some of the gripes.

  3. Man, I think I’m gonna skip this episode. I have just had my fill of people complaining about this movie. I loved Man of Steel and while I’ll agree it’s not perfect, I don’t think its the abomination that people who don’t like it are making it out to be. I’m just not interested in hearing/having discussions about MoS. You either like it or you don’t.

  4. About the jimmy olsen thing. I think i read somewhere that they made him a girl photographer called jenna, maybe the girl that perry white and the other reporter dude are trying to save from under the rubble. I think.

  5. Sorry, as a long time Superman fan, I loved the movie. That’s all. So “Boo hoo” to yours, and Mark Waid’s, “Boo”. Also, this isn’t me sounding cool, but I start fights with people who interrupt movies. Don’t like the ending? Leave. Don’t ruin the experience for other people.

  6. I’m still listening to this episode but I have a bad feeling that this is going to be like The Dark Knight Rises again last year where everybody on the podcast will list their complaints for the film, going on and on about the issues or what they didn’t like (Also why do DC films get the hatred, not the Marvel films?).

    As I said in the forums, I’m not a fan of Superman (always preferred Batman over every superhero, and same goes for superhero films), but Man of Steel turned me into a Superman fan. I guess people want Superman to be a good, perfect person who also doesn’t go through any personal conflict. While Man of Steel isn’t perfect, I loved it. I’m looking forward to the next installment of a superhero movie, which only happened with the Nolan’s Batman trilogy. I felt Man of Steel had something fresh, was highly entertaining, and decided to let Superman loose, fighting Zod and his army (another complaint I don’t understand was too much action. Also I will argue that no one was in those buildings as they were shown to be empty during the Zod and Superman fight).

    So yes, Man of Steel was awesome and I personally feel it was and will be the best superhero film this year.

    BEGIN SPOILERS
    Also, I feel that the action that Superman takes in the end of the film will have consequences seen in the sequel. In the film, he feels the pain and loss after committing the act of killing Zod.
    END SPOLIERS

    1. I agree with everything you just said, including the spoiler at the end. It was a shock, but none more so than to Superman. It was an impossible situation against an opponent who wanted it.

      Seriously guys, I know you’re straight comic fanboys at heart rather than Marvel cock-drinkers, but it does your image no good when you unanimously praise Marvel-produced stuff like Iron Man 3 and Avengers and rag on everything else (okay, with the exception of Green Lantern which we’d kinda forgive you for). You can’t even bear to criticise shit like Iron Man 2 or Captain America.

      1. I know that everyone on Cape Crisis/Laser Time are not simply Marvel fanboys and like plenty of DC stuff, but I agree that sometime it feels that Marvel can do no wrong (especially with the films).

        1. I know that we can come off on the show like we think Marvel does no wrong, but especially with the films I think that’s untrue. Did we give Avengers a ton of praise? Sure, but I feel we had our issues with Iron Man 3, and I personally think Green Lantern is a better comic film than Wolverine Origins and Amazing Spider-Man.

          It’s perfectly fine that you disagree with my stance on Man of Steel, but my issues don’t come from a distaste for DC or Superman. Instead, it comes from a love of the character and mythos of Superman, and a strong desire to see what I love about the character up on the big screen. A comic film can ignore a lot of continuity and history, so long as the core of the character is remains intact, and Clark was really missing something in the film. Even excluding my spoilerific issues with it, Superman was missing the compassion for humanity that I think defines him.

          Have you heard me rag on Amazing Spider-Man for handing Peter Parker a skateboard and having him act like a total moron, like an irresponsible doof that couldn’t keep his damn mask on? How about when I complained that the Incredible Hulk was all about an Ed Norton guilt trip, not how awesome the Hulk could be? Or the fact that, while I didn’t love X-Men: First Class, that they got Xavier and Magneto 100% correct? Same with Captain America getting Steve Rogers so very right even if the whole film was about a B-.

          Capturing the core of the characters is what matters most to me in a comic films, and it’s something the Avengers and the solo movies got. And I’d same the same for Nolan’s Bat movies. Man of Steel seems like it missed something vital about Superman. That S may stand for hope, but MoS’s Superman didn’t do much to instill it in humanity.

          1. I want to point out first that I’m glad LaserTime has responded to something I posted.
            I wish it was a response to something positive I posted, not a negative post.
            Lastly, I wanted to write the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Iron Man, Avengers, Thor) not the Fox, Sony Marvel films, which even I forgotten about the Amazing Spider-Man podcast mainly b/c that film was so forgettable.

            I want to point out that I’m not saying you guys are biased and hate DC films. If anything, it’s probably my bias towards DC and their properties (and I know that you guys like Green Lantern, Watchmen). I guess I wanted to write my feeling on the film, as in my previous post I mentioned that I’m not a big fan of Superman. The reason why you like Superman are probably the reason why I don’t like parts of Superman, and also is the reason why I chose Batman in the DC universe and the whole superhero genre. With Man of Steel, I felt I saw something different from the previous Superman stories and films, and that difference is the reason why I enjoyed this film so much, but that difference is the reason why you disliked the film.

            So, I wish I didn’t say that you guys say Marvel can do no wrong. My bad. However, after watching this film at the 7pm screening on Thursday and reading the reaction of critics on RT, I guess I felt shocked and stunned as because it felt I seen a different film than most of the critics (an uncommon experience). In the end, I wanted to write that my views of Man of Steel are way more positive than the reaction of others and fans of Superman from the comics.

            I’m a big fan of this podcast and all the other podcast on LaserTime and didn’t want to you to believe that I feel you guys are always on the side of Marvel. Hopefully there are no hard feeling and I’m looking forward to the next episode.

          2. Its good that supes doesnt fit his boring stereotype, its an origin tale, hes not the idealic superman yet, hes young, hes learning.
            If you make him that way at the beginning theres no growth and hes just lame and yawn inducing as he was in Superman Returns.

  7. I can understand why the ending pissed a lot of people off, but personally it didn’t bother me too much. In fact I think they’re gonna make the fact that he killed Zod a big part of the second movie and I think they’re gonna somehow work it into the reason behind why this version of superman won’t kill again or something. It’ll be very interesting to see what happens in the sequel.

  8. By the foreshadowing in the 1st part of the ep, I thought Id be writing an angry response here.
    BUT!!!
    When Henry laid out his complaints and I heard them, they seemed really weak and I feel no need to respond to them. Actually he makes the film seem even stronger and more amazing to me.
    Good work Henry.

    http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/356/f/3/joker_troll_by_geek_in_it-d2jh1ew.png

    On the “main gripe”
    You want Supes to quit and pay lame penance for something he had to do, something realistically that had to be done. The idea that theres always a way out or these things can be avoidable, even for batman is a sort of meta thing but somehow has leaked into how we think of them and it makes these unbelievable characters lives more unbelievable.

  9. I thought it was a great way to restart the Superman franchise. The story beats, themes (even if they’re rehashes) and characterizations were spot on and felt fresh enough to justify the origin again. My only issue with the film was that even though Zach Snyder tried to keep it contained in the more serious bits of the film, the action was all over the place and that awful Weta cgi really took me out of moments, especially in the battle of Smallville sequence and the climax where it seemed like Matrix Revolutions all over again minus the rain. Here’s hoping they go with another company for the green screen stuff in the next one.

    Cheers

  10. Great show this week, I knew it would be good when I went to see the film last week and came out of the cinema disappointed. I agree with Henry’s views 100%

  11. About Superman never killing…Superman recently killed in the pages of Injustice: Gods Among Us #1. He put his fist through Jokers chest. He did something that caused him to destroy most of Metropolis and as a result he went dark side and it took parts of the Justice League and members of the League from another universe to stop him. (As seen in the game) What if they have some story like that mapped out for their cinematic universe. It could be an epic move for them. Marvel isn’t going to do something like that, they’ll never make Cap or Iron Man go dark side on the film, and having a bad Superman on film has been done before. Christopher Reeve pulled it off in Superman III. The movie itself wasn’t great but Bad Superman was one of the most memorable parts of the Reeve universe. So I say, don’t let the movie get to you. Enjoy it for what it is and see where they go with it from there.

    Van @ Underground Geek Network

  12. “Superman wouldn’t do this’, “Superman wouldn’t do that”… First of all, Superman is NOT real, Superman is what corporate decides is that year. Superman is a brand mainly used to earn money for individuals that have a heap of cash already, sure…there are creators that lovingly and deeply create the stories we enjoy, and have enjoyed, but the brand owners feel no loyalty to us, or our perception of this fictional character. We feel this deep connection to the characters we have followed for years since our youth, they area safe place for us to wonder and dream, they are our rock, a foundation of ideals that will not betray, will not abandon, and we believe… will not change. But, the real world, the one we share we real people creeps in, and these characters change, and they have changed even before we became followers. Has anyone actually read the first 5 years of Superman?, try it, and you will see how drastic Superman has been modified to fit the needs of the time. Let’s call a spade a spade, we get angry at any change to the things we are a fan off, because change is scary, it means having to reevaluate your position and emotional ties, and in a way, we become extreme conservatives. We have to decide, to love something for what it was at the time, or force it to remain the same for ever. Which one of these choices is healthier?.

  13. I think Superman is a dumb character. So my problems with the movie have no basis in comic fandom, but in film appreciation.

    David Goyer demonstrates what a shitty writer he can be. So many interesting themes and ideas completely glossed over in favor of deafening action that only makes me wonder how many people are dying. All that shit about making Superman an ideal of hope, how the world would freak out if they saw him, is just lip-service. All the details are told to you instead of shown. Sure, you see the military flip it’s shit, but

    Also:

    What’s with the abundance of exposition?
    Why can Jor-El, the head scientist, beat the shit out of several military officers?
    Does anyone else think the thoroughness of Jor-El’s AI a little too convenient?
    Why is there an El-embroidered suit on a spaceship that is THOUSANDS of years old? This suit that carries a symbol that represents hope just happened to be there? And the House of El is thousands of years old? A little too convenient.

    Goyer shouldn’t write movies anymore. Such a shame that this movie isn’t better because the cast really gave it their all. Especially Shannon.

  14. A superman that does what he does at the end, is a superman that batman would never shake hands with PERIOD! Totally agree with hank, screw this movie, it’s wrong, IT’S ALL DAMN WRONG!, WHO WROTE THIS COFFEE?

  15. A superman that does what he does at the end, is a superman that batman would never shake hands with PERIOD! Totally agree with hank, screw this movie, it’s wrong, IT’S ALL DAMN WRONG!, WHO WROTE THIS COPY?

  16. I tend to agree with most of the complaints given by the guys, and I get Hank not liking the idea of Supes killing Zod. I had no real issue with it since he has been forced to do it in the past, or as in the new 52 made the decision that if all else fails he will do it.

    However I do think that the arguments given for what he could do instead of killing him misses a point that the film tries to make, but like so much else with the flick, fails miserably at, overshadowing it and virtually any form of character development with loud and utterly pointless action. Zod is getting stronger every second they’re fighting, not weaker. He’s mastering powers in minutes that took Clark decades to learn . One of the few nice pieces of visual storytelling in the flick illustrates that point nicely, when Zod masters flight and sheds his battlesuit and is just there in his, I guess, kryptonion long long johns, the flick is saying, look he’s Clark’s equal and opposite now, he no longer needs this suit to help him handle Kal El. The little verbal crack that Zod uses about how he’s trained his whole life to focus his senses and control his body in order to fight and Clark is just some guy who grew up on a farm (which is also a huge problem since Clark is apparently incredibly stupid in this movie, since he actually tells Zod what he has to do in order to overcome the sensory overload that is Clarks one advantage over the other Kryptonions) is just tossed out as a one liner villain boast in the middle of a slugfest, but really should be given more weight because it’s in that moment that this version of Clark realizes he can’t stop him, and in a very short amount of time he’s not going to be able to hold his own against him. So Supes ends up in a dominant position in the fight, all the arguments about he should of done this or done that ignores the basic fact that if he lets him go to try break his arms, or if he tries to break his spine or tries to fly away with him, then he gives up the one time in this fight he has the advantage, he has to take this action or he’s going to lose and he’s going to die, and Zod will kill everyone.

    Of course like so much else, the film fails to really convey this, and the fact that it completely ignores the damage done and the effect it would have on Clark is such a copout and a complete 180 on the rest of the film. If you’re going to talk about doing a more grounded take on Superman, and if you’re going to use as an excuse that you’re trying to show the realism of what these kind of fights would be like, then when you have Superman help cause the death of thousands if not more people you can’t just do a smash cut of Supes wailing in pain and grief over the dead body of the last remaining member of his species who he has killed thus dooming his race to extinction, amongst the rubble and millions of dead, to Superman playing around with a United States general and cracking jokes with him. The film itself is a mess, with poor pacing and an insufferable 45 min Michael Bay ending, terrible flat writing for most of the characters, and a complete reversal in tone between the last five mins of the film and the preceding hour and how ever long it takes to get Supes wailing in a crater, but the killing of Zod is something I don’t have a problem with, only with how the film completely mishandles it.

  17. I also was a BIG fan of MoS. Whether you loved the take on the character or not, this is definitely the most complex and interesting version of Superman on screen yet, and that alone is a huge reason why I’m excited to see where they take this character.

    Also, I think Superman just falls prey to the damned if you do, damned if you don’t argument. Where people ALWAYS bash him for being too powerful and a goody-two-shoes and such, and then when he OBLITERATES people with his powers and actually kills a bad guy everyone is up in arms like, “Where’s my classic Superman?” You can’t hate on the character in one breath and then praise him for the same thing in another.

    In this story of MoS, Kal-El (or Clark or whatever) JUST became Superman. I think as long as we see him struggle with the consequences of his actions going forward, and what he means to the planet as a whole, this will be his transformation into the Superman is always good and hopeful that people want to see.

  18. I have not had the opportunity to see this movie yet but it sounds a lot like this will be a movie I enjoy the first time I see it but like it won’t hold up to the scrutiny of multiple viewings and yeah that ending doesn’t seem like how I want a Superman movie to end but in the universe they have set up maybe this is his only choice.

    I am right there with you on All-Star Superman Hank anyone who has not read it definitely should, Morrison and Quitely are not for everyone but if it clicks it will probably be your favorite Supes story, definitely one of mine.

  19. I have been dreading this episode. So many of my favorite podcasts have just been bashing MOS that I really don’t think I could take another hour plus of people saying the same things over and over so for my love of the podcast I am just going to delete this one and the next. I will return after the talk about the movie is over.

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