Cape Crisis #56 – Men of Steel

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Recorded early last week due to scheduling issues, we talk more about the books we’ve been reading, random crap, and, yes, Man of Steel, but we have some new things to say about it, promise!

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39 thoughts on “Cape Crisis #56 – Men of Steel

  1. Wahhh! I’m Buzz-kill Brett. Stay on topic even if the off topic rants are the most fun part of the show. Wahhh!

    1. Hey I was just trying to respond to feedback that the show details too often. I’m totally fine talking about Community on a comic book podcast, but I figured ppl might want a show that stays on topic. Next time I’ll let it flow wherever the wind takes us.

      1. I do feel like the show derails too often, I listen for the comic book talk as much as the hosts, there’s laser time if you want to hear about community or hear the hosts go off on tangents.

      2. I also prefer on topic discussions. Stuff like the community segment is always what gets cut for conversations about Zack Braff and the real world. I really appreciate someone tenting this circus.

        1. I prefer random topics on all the Laser Time productions. Cheap Popcast stays on topic, and I lose interest in the wrestling talk. Dave is good at staying on topic on that and KOXM, but he’s good at keeping up with the others as they drift, too. It’d be better if they could take more time and didn’t have to worry about bandwidth.

      3. I’m glad when Brett keeps things on topic, especially when the tangent goes a little too far off, like during the DC episode when the topic became about reality TV. Given the whole point of the episode was to give something for the DC fans who complain about Marvel on this show, Brett keeping it on topic was a good move then, just like now. Different hosts/guests balance out the whole podcast network and that’s why I love it.

    2. i’m all for staying on topic. i mean in all honesty… if they wanted to talk about non comic topics i say edit them out and do a laser time compilation podcast of all the off topic stuff that comes up in other podcasts.
      I appreciate brett wrangling it in, i listen to harmontown, i don’t care about dan harmon in my comic book podcast, even if he did help write a bunch of scud comics and is a huge comic geek. so.
      edit it out and stick on the end of an episode of lasertime.

      when they go off topic i feel like they’re bored with doing the show, and my solution would be for them to maybe get some distance from mostly reading marvel and dc only and really get out there and play around in the world of comics so they’ll have a lot of stuff that excites them and keeps them talking comics.

      so thank you brett, thank you for trying to make the show solid and not insanely tangential.

    3. They’re not, when they go to far it gets annoying. Specially when people start getting on their soapboxes.

  2. I thought it was implied that he did help other people when Lois tracks him down by talking to people, saying something like he was a guardian angel to some. After listening to podcast 55 and this one, the more I think about it the more I think this movie is setting up a version of Superman that fits into the universe that was created in the Nolan Batman films, trying to be more realistic (as much as you can with a God-like being) and more gritty. I think that’s why we got a lot of emphasis placed on how much destruction is caused by super powerful beings fighting and Zod’s death at the end. As for Superman’s angst over killing Zod just reduced to a cliche scream in this movie, I’m willing to bet in either the next Superman movie or the Justice League movie another character asks Superman why doesn’t he just kill their enemies, he says something like “I’ve gone down that road before, and it’s a road I’m not going down again.”

  3. Nolan said he liked the neck snap after not liking it with time.
    Again this is not the idealistic superman yet, he is learning, He doesnt think of himself as a super man to inspire people, this is about him coming to terms with his existence and stop being an outcast.
    And he saves/helps plenty of people, the bus of kids, the oil rig, lois(several times), the soldiers(after they shot at him) and the entire planet! And everyones not supposed to like superman, hes unknown! Its implied he helped plenty of people in his travels!
    How many people does he have to save for henry to be pleased.
    How many people did Thor save or batman save in Begins?
    Also I dont want to see superman sulking, the scene brett envisions of him sitting in the fortress in thought is cool, but again this is an origin and the fortress isnt even set up yet.
    Also supes kills zod in superman 2 WHILE F**KING SMILNG HIS ASS OFF!
    And I do not think the whole “jesus” thing was as exaggerated as you make it out to be.

    I just dont understand WHY THE FUCK YOUR SO CRITICAL OF THIS FILM WHEN YOU GAVE IRONMAN 3 BARELY ABSOLUTELY NO SHIT.
    Tony watches pepper(his only love apparently) DIE and doesnt bat an eye.
    Maria hill is a useless character
    Also your critical of snyders style, but shane black clearly had an annoying influence in im3, such as the uselessness of including christmas.

    All Im saying is this superman is not superman as you know him yet, hes not supposed to be everything you want from superman or know of him, I just believe its unfair to him as a character to expect so much perfection when you you dont get that from the marvel films at times or even batman in d. knight.

    +
    Im glad brett kept things on topic, sometimes I think henry and chris wait to talk about community/arrested development on cape crisis on purpose. If I cared about either Id probably be interested but even still this is a COMIC podcast!

    1. Kinda agree, I feel (hope) this is just setting Supes up for a more on-point second film. It’s true he’s barely learned to fly and may not have the “truth, justice” etc properly figured out, so I can see him not bending over backwards to help literally everyone he sees.

      As for why IM gets less shit… well this is just my thought on the matter, but Iron Man and the rest of the Marvel movies position themselves as entertainment, as popcorn, dare I say it, disposable. Avengers, perhaps, thanks to Whedon gets into “long lasting quality action/event movie.” But DC (by way of TDK and TDKR) seems to strive for a true film status, things that can be pitted against any “real” movie out in a given year. MoS was clearly trying to do this both with tone and with marketing association; simply calling Man of Steel says a lot, plus the grainy symbol, plus the somber tone etc etc. So when you go for “real” movie, you open yourself to all the problems of “real” movies PLUS whiny fanboys. A tough mix, one only TDK/TDKR seem to have figured out.

      Green Lantern… dunno. They did position that a bit more like entertainment, but even there I got this vibe of, “the next great space opera is upon us!”

      1. This is why I was so disappointed with it. As a Superman hater, I was so ready for this film to tell me why I should care about the man, not the symbol. I got that with Kingdom Come. But as a film, this movie is a fucking mess. Horribly written.

        Also, will you guys fuckin ease up. There is no need to get so pissed because these guys didn’t like the movie you liked.

        And lastly, I’d like to thank the crew for continuing to comment. First Hank, now Brett.

    2. I really love how part of your defense for a movie you’re in love in includes attacking other movies, very smart, very mature…

      Also love how you shrug any criticism of man of steel as nitpicking, but then you want to attack other movies by nitpicking them as well. “The uselessness of including Christmas” OH MY GOD HOW DARE HIM INCLUDE CHRISTMAS AS A BACKDROP FOR THE MOVIE, THE FILM IS TOTALLY RUINED BECAUSE OF THAT.

      Seriously, please try to learn that just because you loved something doesn’t mean everyone else should. And attacking other comparable stuff just because you’re butt-hurt only makes you come off as petty.

      1. Did I come off as butt hurt? Did I shrug it away and dismiss someone’s opinion? Didn’t feel like I was disrespectful to anyone.

        Not sure I get what you’re saying here. I don’t recall gushing over IM3 OR shitting MoS particularly hard. And the Christmas thing… I don’t recall feeling strongly about it one way or the other.

        Or is this a more general statement and not towards me? Basically wondering why you reply with such anger and cussing when I didn’t go down that road. Or am I like super confused by all this?

        1. Um… My apologies Elston, this was a reply at Codystovall’s reply and not at all directed at you ^^; I guess it appeared below you because I posted after you did, but it wasn’t meant for you, and I’m sorry if you felt attacked by me ^^;

          And well, the reason I attacked Codystovall like this is because he’s been super defensive about this movie going back to the forum thread we have in this site. Basically ever since he saw it he’s been “OMG GUYS THIS IS THE BEST MOVIE EVER I DON’T GET WHY YOU GUYS DON’T LIKE IT” And well, that kind of attitude just pisses me off. Specially when he resorts at attacking other movies just because he feels MoS isn’t being acclaimed enough.

          Anyway, sorry about this, i really apologize about the confusion, and i promise to tone it down ^^;

  4. I like when you guys do other subjects every so often. Cape Crisis is the only show that has the ability to do so. Lasertime has topics they have to stick to and is sometimes recorded a few weeks before posting (atleast I think so) so it can’t topical 100% of the time. And more often than not the other topics tie into comics like Venture Bros. or Community. But I also found Brett’s attempts to rein in the show very funny and sometimes needed. So I am going to be a moderate and say maybe have Cape Crisis be mainly comics but talk about other stuff every so often. That being said I would love a post season 5 Venture Bros. Lasertime aswell as a “Welcome back Dan Harmon” Lasertime when season 4 of community airs.

  5. Christ, I almost never do this so here goes.

    WARNING! I’m better at speaking than writing on occasion.

    Just finished this weeks Cape Crisis, I was looking forward to hearing Brett’s take on the movie and I can’t say that I disagree with much of what was said….and yet I still enjoyed it more than they did.

    Normally I would start with the good stuff, which is plentiful through out the film, but I think that if you don’t address the “big” moment upfront then I’m doing a disservice to the rest of what I’m about to say. So…

    I think that one of the critiques that annoys me the most is that Superman had simple options to not kill Zod. This is what I heard on the show today. “He could have turned his head” or “He could have flown away” and so forth. These are all valid ways to get out of the moment, but then what?

    The Zod that they setup is an unstoppable killing machine. No prison can hold him, there’s no Kryptonite that can harm him, no red sun prison….nothing. Every second he’s allowed to exist, people will die. The story they were trying to tell didn’t allow for any other option. So I feel like they earned that moment, all the pieces are in place and when push came to shove, Clark did the only thing he could do. BTW, with Superman’s strength it’s perfectly plausible that he could break Zod’s neck.

    Also, Henry…the scene in Dark Knight is entirely different than the one in MoS. Sure the Joker tells Batman that he’s going to have to “break his one rule”, but…First, the scene isn’t allowed to play out because as Bruce is starting to become truly unhinged the Joker tells him where Rachel and Dent are. That’s his real plan. Also, the Joker isn’t an unstoppable killing machine. He’s still a man who can be jailed or stopped. Zod is wholly different.

    So that all said…guess what. It was a mistake. They should have never let that happen, or put the character in that situation. I understand that they wanted to take the character somewhere where he has seldom been (and certainly never on screen) and in that they did a very good job of getting him there. And still they shouldn’t have done it and if they really wanted to that wasn’t the way to do it. (BTW DC actually said “No, Superman doesn’t kill”, but they don’t hold those keys. In the end Nolan was swayed over and the studio brass signed off. My money says they all regret that choice now because it’s dominating the conversation).

    Superman killing Zod was, in my opinion, a mistake, but not so much in the actual killing. (BTW, you can call it murder, but that implies that Zod was an innocent or somehow deserved better and frankly he didn’t). That is to say, Superman doesn’t kill. But if you’re going to do it, then you don’t have him snap the guys neck. It’s way too visceral for Superman. You could see him, kicking a guy into the sun or dropping a villain into a nebulous cloudy mist, but the neck snap was over the line.

    Grant Morrison once said that “Superman fights the Impossible.” In an impossible situation Superman should have won. Full stop. I can’t say that when I left the theater, I wasn’t disappointed in that decision.

    However, taking all that away I think there’s a lot of good movie there. Even Waid’s article talked about how he really enjoyed the movie for most of it, until the last act. And I suppose that’s kind of my feeling, I’m not going to let a bad choice in the last 20 minutes of a movie totally undo all the other stuff that I liked in it.

    This movie is HUGE and I love it for that. I love that go for melodrama when needed, they give small quiet moments room to breathe, and CRAZY CARTOON levels action when called for. All in a 2h 20m movie that cranks by.

    Krypton was a joy of 50’s sci-fi that I haven’t seen in a long time.

    I thought all the Smallville stuff with Ma and Pa Kent was handled really well. Costner nailed it.

    The new take on Lois and Clarks relationship is a breath of fresh air and really makes Lois far more competent than any previous incarnation of the character.

    Faora was the shit. I agree that at times I liked her as a villain more than Zod, but I also think Zod has to carry more character than she does and leaves himself more open for critique. Still, Shannon was cold, mean and downright scary when he want to be.

    I also loved the sort of “Clark : The Missing Years” stuff. It’s a part of his origin that is seldom touched on and I enjoyed that they showed up what he was up to on the way to the arctic.

    Those are just off the top of my head, I’m sure there are more.

    Just a few more points…

    On Superman not saving people:

    Yep. I get it. I would have liked to have seen a little more of Superman in the suit saving more than just one soldier falling out of the sky. Still, he saves a bus full of kids (Lana Lang! Pete Ross!), and oil rig, a chick in a diner, and you know, the whole planet Earth. Would I have liked a shot of Superman saving a baby or something. Hell yes! But I also saw a lot of that in the first 2 hours of that movie (and in other films) and in exchange I got 15 minutes of some of the best Superhero fights I’ve ever seen on screen. I’ll take that exchange.

    On Superman and Jesus:

    Again…yep. He’s 33, there’s a scene in a church and he outstretches his arms for 2 seconds in space as he pushes off. Too on the nose? Maybe, but that Jesus/Moses thing is built into the character and at no point was I taken out of it because of it. I wonder, and I’m probably going to be in-eloquent about this so forgive me, but I wonder if it has to do with peoples relationship to religion rather than the film itself. I am by no means a church going person, nor do I have really any kind of ties to organized faith, call me agnostic if you will. But I also don’t have a problem with religion like some people on the internet (see r/atheism). If Clark wants to have a scene with a priest, because he’s having a crisis of conscience I’m down with that. It’s built into the character.

    Man of Steel has problems for sure, but I don’t know if they are movie killing problems (sans the actual killing, that’s all bad M’Kay?). I think that they tried to deliver something that we had not seen before in an origin story and I feel that for 90 percent of the movie they deliver just that. I just wish that it had been a little more inspirational and less impressive. There’s a reason the amp doesn’t go to 11.

    Finally, I want to ask everyone something about Superman. For a long time he’s gotten a lot of flack for being boring, flat, uninteresting…etc. Now that we have this movie, a lot of the critique is about how “That’s not Superman” which is fair because I think everyone’s relationship with Superman is actually very personal. We bring “our” Superman along to the theater. Still the question is…Is Superman a person/character or is he just nostalgia? Because a lot of the feelings about Man of Steel are not about what’s on the screen but rather about a nostalgia about…Truth, Justice and the American Way, or red underpants. Do we want Superman to be our nostalgic memory or can he adapt and be modern while at the same time still be Superman.

    Sorry for the long post. I kinda just kept typing so there’s probably some terrible grammar and typos up there.

    Keep up the good work with Cape Crisis…Henry you drive me insane sometimes but I still like the show and I’m glad you’re talking DC a little more. πŸ˜‰

    Everyone check out Justice League this week. Some great Shazam stuff in there. But honestly it’s all about Pizza Dog this week.

    Cheers,

    Ringslinger.

    If you liked this I do a show called Zero Room (find it on iTunes) where we did about an hour on MoS two weeks ago.

  6. Henry, you are great, but that was one of the worst Scottish accents of all time (and I’m from Glasgow!)

    I like tangents, but I love comics more. Occasional off topics are fun, but I vote for sticking to comics as much as possible.

    1. Another point on tangents: if you keep going off on them, you’ll probably not get as many new listeners – if someone tunes in looking for a comic book podcast, and gets very little comic book talk, they’re unlikely to return. Just a thought!

  7. This is slowly becoming my favorite show on the lasertime network. Community section was great

  8. “I don’t see how the public can not turn on Superman at the end of this” Like for example a certain bald businessman who would hold a grudge against him?

  9. I used to not really like Brett but I’ve come to appreciate him more as I have started podcasting myself. Someone does need to put a tent on that circus. I just would like to point out that I find Henry Gilbert to be somewhat of a diva and it seems like its either his way or the highway. He does work really well as the straight man. I love how Cape Crisis has somewhat become another LaserTime in which you guys can talk about whatever you want which is always amazing to hear. Keep up the great work guys.

    H-E-N-E-R-E-Y!

  10. I agree with Philip that I hope they use the death as the motivation for Lex Luther. To prove he really is not so “super”

  11. I haven’t listened to this weeks show but nobody seems to have discussed this that I have seen. I had two problems with the film both based on the same thing. A trained military general whose whole purpose was to be a military man got his ass beat by a scientist who presumably was bread to be the best scientist that he could. how did this happen? I actually turned to my wife when this happened and said “That’s impressive for a scientist.”

    The second part is similar, Clark had absolutely no fight training. Jonathan Kent would never allow Clark to take karate or anything like it. His speed and strength are matched by the kryptonian soldiers led by Zod and they should have been trained as soldiers in various forms of martial arts. they should have been able to break his arms with the same relative ease that he broke Zod’s neck especially since Clark has never been in an actual fight in his life.

    I know in the comics that Supes had to get taught how to fight by someone, I forget who because he never had to learn, he just punches things usually then he wins.

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